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This is John Bachelor, conversation with colleague Judy Dempsey of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace a senior scholar. She's based in Berlin.

Discussing the meeting, most recently in Berlin, between the principles of NATO, most all of them, Sir

Gerstirmer for Britain, and Menor Macron for France, Olaf Schultz from Germany,

Joe Biden for the United States, about what is to be done with the

application by Ukraine to join NATO.

They want to join NATO now, that's part of the victory plan.

Why not, or why not announce a date certain for joining of NATO

meeting these conditions? Judy has an answer. It's blunt and it's provocative. Why not?

There's Judy Dempsey, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a veteran

reporter on the EU and NATO in Berlin about the reluctance, the hesitation, the shyness, refusal of the United States

and its major allies in NATO to issue an invitation to join NATO to the Ukrainian people under attack by the Russian Federation and its allies.

...