This is John Batchel, conversation with Professor Eugene Finkel, his new book, Intent to Destroy,

Russia's 200-year quest to dominate Ukraine. In this particular section, Professor describes the

People's Republic of Ukraine, born out of the Russian breakdown, all-empirate, 1919, 1919, and why it was attacked by all the Russian

governments, why everybody agreed to attack it, why it didn't last.

Eugene Finkel, the People's Republic of Ukraine, two years, three years, and then more tragedy. More of this tonight. And Marneye,

Eugene Finkel's intent to destroy. Right. So 1917, 1918 empires collapse. The German

empire, but more importantly for our story, the Russian Empire and also Hungarian Empire. When the Russian Empire

collapses and the communists come to power in St. Petersburg, people in Ukraine have other

ideas. They don't want to be ruled by communists and they don't want to be treated like Russians anymore.

So they decide to go their own way and out of the collapse of the Russian Empire.

They create their own state, the so-called Ukrainian People's Republic, which, you know, by the time, by the standards

of the day, it was an extremely liberal state. So they had, they, it was a democratic state. They

had minority rights. They abolished the death penalty. They guaranteed an eight hours workday,

workday for everyone. Their problem is that they're just too small and too weak. Because once they declare this independence, the Russian government, oh, the governments will be more precisely to say because there are several

governments. But if you look at the Russians, it doesn't really matter whether you are

communists or monarchist or liberal, what they might fight each other to them, but what

unites them is that Ukraine should be a part of Russia. So.