This is John Batcher, conversation with Seth Fransman, my colleague.

He's at the Jerusalem Post, a war correspondent.

He's at the Foundation for the Defense of democracies.

He's the author of a new book.

The October 7th War, Israel's Battle for Security in Gaza.

This is from the history of Hamas, its rise in the late 20th century, to Springtime,time 2024 Seth is giving us not only the background but the

combat and the combat operations at the same, commenting on the intelligence failure that is October 7th,

is set to describe how all intelligence failures look alike afterwards. More of this tonight. Yeah I think it's just

an example of a typical human failure of complacency, combined with arrogance,

combined with looking in the wrong direction

and therefore having a feedback loop

in which everything that you're told,

you just say, you just kind of dismiss it.

And so there was a lot of group think at the top there.

I mean look if you're in a room with 10 people and everyone thinks one thing it's always

worth to be the one that says you know what let's be a contrarian let's say it's not that.

And you can look at that

always in history whether it's the stock market crashes or anything else and you can say

it's always good to have one person you know say know what, what if this is not the case?

So the problem happened prior to October 70s that there was a huge amount of information coming

out of Gaza, as you said, the women observers are part of these observation

that's a part of the idea.

...