This is John Batchelor, speaking with New Zealand's Ruben Staff, a professor at Waikato University

about National Security, International Relations, Five Eyes.

New Zealand has a new government under Prime Minister

Luxembourg. It is looking to move very, very swiftly to participating in not only

five eyes but also AICUS, the conversations about expanding

AICUS, not just to Japan, but to Canada, New Zealand, the two other members of Five Eyes not now involved with Aukis. All of this of course

leads to confrontation with China and I had a pleasant conversation with Rubin about Wolf Warrior, Chinese sharp elbows and bullying that's been going on for several years.

And Rubin answers very particularly, yes, yes. years and

yes, yes and yes. Is Rubin staff about the Chinese aggression and bullying

and bad behavior with regard New Zealand.

Yes, the Chinese ambassador here is not shy to release statements, criticizing New Zealand decision-making,

and that is around, things like Orcus Pilatoo that is around

connections to NATO the United States and so on yes so they pretty pretty regularly do

release statements the state-run media in China, of course, also every now and then we'll mention

New Zealand warning us. So yes, we are. Wall Warrior diplomacy is here. What we haven't

had though is those economic sanctions that Australia experience at least not yet