This is John Batchelor speaking with Judy Dempsey, the editor-in-chief of Strategic Europe for the Carnegie Endowment for an International Peace, based in Berlin,

about Olaf Schultz and Emmanuel Macron, two dueling leaders of two powerful states in the EU, about Ukraine.

Financial Times headline, Macron says sending Western troops to Ukraine cannot be ruled out.

London Telegraph headline, Schultz rules out NATO troops to Ukraine.

Speaking with Judy Dempsey about Schultz at home and his very poor poll ratings these last weeks,

Judy answers carefully, not only are they poor, but the rising poll numbers belong to alternative for Deutschland.

That is a right of center party, new, that is against NATO, against the U. US, against Russia, against the decisions made by

Olaf Schultz. I think it's against NATO, EU as well. It's against everything.

It's against immigration. It's a grand hire

taxes. It's alternative for Dutchland and that is pressing hard on the

socialists who Hershultz leads.

So Judy does us the favor of analyzing

all of the German politics now,

responding to Hershultz, and he is responding to the suggestion by Mr McCrone there in competition.

About Ukraine is Judy Dempsey Carnegie Endowment, a lesson in German politics.

I'm not so sure.

The very interesting thing about the German political constellation at the moment

is that the big opposition party, the Christian Democrats,

which had been led by the former Chancellor, Angel America, they're doing really,

really well and they want to support a Ukraine much more militarily. They want economic

reforms at home. They're much more sort of, it's always easy in opposition of

course, but they're much more combative when dealing with

...