This is John Battler, conversation with colleague Katrina Vanenova, the editorial director and publisher of the Nation magazine,

about sanctions, sanctions upon Russia since the start of the Ukraine conflict in 2014 when Russia moved into Crimea

and dominated the eastern part of the country.

It was many years ago.

Here we are ten years later, more than 10 years later. And what

we're looking at is more sanctions and what is it done? Katrina understands and she explains.

It's moved Russia not to sell to the west but to sell to the east.

It's also creating a block, a very powerful block, eastward, not westwardward he was Katrina to explain more of this later yeah

I think what's happened John is that you're seeing a read adjustment of reconfiguration

of the world order in a sense that Russia is turning east.

We haven't mentioned China, but I think that the continual, there's continual lecturing

from the United States to China not to be too involved with Russia.

I think China in some ways is enjoying its senior partnership perhaps to Russia's junior partnership

mirror in history, but it's not listening to the United States.

It's not about to be lectured by the United States on all these issues.

So I trust Anatole's judgment 100%.

He was in Kiev a few years ago

and he noticed that Ukraine and parts in Russia

around capitals, the regional provinces, the towns, are the ones being battered,

as are those who are not the richest, as in our country military's call-ups, of course drafts and usually hit the most vulnerable, the poorest,

the least connected. But he said Kyiv was doing okay that there were 24 kinds of

cognac in one of the bars and Moscow has always been throughout

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