This is John Batchelor, conversation with Jerry Hendrix,

United States Navy Retired Aviator, just back from Kiel Germany, a meeting of the

Sea Symposium Gathering annually,

Admirals and captains from all manner of navies in NATO,

looking at what is to be learned from the conflict in the Black Sea, the potential conflict in the Baltic Sea, and then

on to the Arctic Ocean.

Here Jerry reflects on the entrance of Finland and Sweden into NATO and what this means

for the Arctic and for the Baltic but

especially for the Arctic operating in those conditions. Jerry Hendrix on the

changes in NATO adding Sweden and Finland and making the Baltic a

challenge for the Russians as well as NATO what is to be done.

Talking about submarines, talking about diesel-driven submarines, the Virginia

class, the future. Here's Jerry. More of this later.

Well again, not wanting to get into the actual discussions I will say that there was a lot of

conversation about anti-access air denial and whether the entrance of Finland and Sweden had changed things and the answer is absolutely

that the entrance of Sweden specifically with industrial base with its ability to create

small submarines that are actually comfortable operating in the Baltic.

I would just remind your listeners that the large nuclear-powered U.S. submarines, our Virginia class,

cannot operate in the shallow confined waters of the Baltic Sea, but the small

diesel electric boats that are built by both the Germans as well as the Swedes, really that

that's their backyard. And so they have really

confounded Russian investments there over the last several decades. And I

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