This is John Boucher, conversation with Cliff May, founder and president of the Foundation for Defense of democracies,

about a new book at War with Ourselves by H.R. McMaster.

Cliff has much familiarity with General McMaster. He talks to him frequently so it's a combination

review and comment on HR McMaster's memories, observations, diarykeeping of his time as National Security advisor for

President Trump. Did President Trump interfere in combat operations?

Did he order his generals in a fashion similar to Lyndon Johnson in the Vietnam War?

General McMaster has studied the war, he studied the Vietnam War, he studied

Lyndon Johnson's behavior and you'd have to say no except

there were exceptions and one was Syria and Cliffmay gives us a very careful

accounting of the order by the president to take all American

troops out of Syria who were stationed there to fight ISIS.

Here's Cliff May on the memory of President Trump in this one

instance insisting to micromanage the battlefield. More of this tonight.

Well the president is the commander-in-chief.

I think he would say that, again, he would say that Trump to his Reddit, let his generals have more leeway to his were exceptions or almost exceptions.

For example, there was a point at which, I'm sure you recall,

where President Trump decided, okay, I'm just going to pull every but all our troops

out of Syria all at once and that was that precipitated General

Mattis who was then defense secretary to resign. He said I understand the

importance of this mission. We're fighting ISIS. We're keeping a bit of a lid on the expansionist ambitions of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

And we have partners over there. ambitions of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

And we have partners over there, particularly Kurds,

...