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This is John Batchel, conversation with

colleague Mark Clifford, the author of Troublemaker, the story of Jimmy Lai, the billionaire, now

jailed for years by the Chinese Communist Party, for speaking out of as a newspaper publisher

who supports liberty in Hong Kong and everywhere in the world. What is to be done?

He's a British citizen, and Mark Clifford, his biographer here speaks to that fact. And what is the

Starmer government doing about a British citizen jailed for years for speaking for liberty?

Very little. There's much more to learn. Here's Mark to explain.

Sure, there's a little bit of, you know, polite criticism about the Starrmer government,

you know, turning its back on human rights. I mean, for God's sake, Kier-Starmor came up as a human

rights lawyer. This used to be part of, you know, British diplomacy, trying to get

dissidents out in the 80s and the 90s, particularly after Tiananmen. But there does seem to be,

I think Gordon's word stovepiping is exactly the right word. There's this kind of naive,

very naive belief that better ties with Beijing equals more trade and more investment,

ergo help for the British economy. The last time I looked, the 2024 numbers, Chinese exports to

Britain were about 70 billion pounds sterling. British exports to China were 30 billion pounds sterling. Let's say you double

...