This is John Batchelor. Fun conversation with the historian Joseph Ellis, his new book The Cause.

This is The Founding Fathers, before the fighting, 74-75 and before that, especially John Adams. The book is the

cause the American Revolution is discontents 1773 to 1783. I especially enjoy thinking about Adams as a

revolutionary, as a troublemaker, accusing his colleagues of being

delusional to think that the king will come to his senses.

Wonderful.

Simple, plain, aggressive, comprehensive, first minister to the United Kingdom after the success of the Treaty of 1783.

John Adams, second President of the United States, Ornry and his son John Quincy Adams, smartest man ever to occupy the White House.

Very smart. Many languages. Well schooled. Not a good politician, but a great scholar.

Here's John Adams, the father.

Joseph Ellis, much more of this later tonight.

Adams is a New Englander.

Dickinson is, is is I was confusing Dickinson with Jay for a second

there Dickinson and Adams is the person who believes that

George III will be premature, that we have to recognize that

trusting that George III will eventually come to his senses is delusional.

He says we are waiting for a Messiah who will never come.

And so he's ahead of Dickinson and he's ahead of most of the members of Congress

or outside of New England. Remember it is Massachusetts in New

England that has been occupied militarily and therefore they have the most at

stake and John and Sam Adams are the two people who sort of try to remain somewhat quiet so that they don't alienate people.

But Adams is a revolutionary, but he's a conservative revolutionary meaning as we'll see in a second I think

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