This is John Batcher, conversation with the historian and author James Holland, his book on the first

half of the campaign to recapture Italy from the German Reich and what was left to the Italian forces.

1943, the Savage Storm, the Battle for Italy.

British landed at the boot and proceeded up the eastern side of the peninsula.

The American army under Mark Clark landed on the western side.

They expected the Germans to back off.

They expected the Italians to come over to their side. It didn't work

out that way. Here's James explaining what choices they had for commanders, how Clark was experienced

but, and commanding an army up against the odds that

he was up against was complete surprise to the overall command.

This is the Savage Storm James Holland

in 1943. More of this, much more of this tonight.

So you know there's a sort of limited supply of people who could step up to that level.

And Clark had been, it was very close to Eisenhower and they were responsible

for bringing American troops, to Britain training them up, getting them organized for Operation

Torch, the invasion of North West Africa, which was, it has to be said largely Clark's plan actually.

So, you know, he's as good a bet as any, but there's no question about it that putting giving someone like Clark who is in experience at

commanding an army force and indeed an amphibious operation in the

Mediterranean and giving him the main effort for the invasion of Italy.

You know, that's quite a big punt and it's a poor hand for him because he hasn't got anything like the backup of say someone

like Patton had when he was launching Operation Husky with 7th Barbie back in July

1943 with all the kind of huge Air Forces, you know, 3,5,000 aircraft, you know, 240 warships,

...