This is John Batchelor, continuing excerpts from my conversation with Evan Thomas, the author of

Road to Surrender, three men in the countdown at the end of the World War II. This turns to the decision-making by the Emperor Hera

Hito in the palace in Tokyo. After he hears news of the Hiroshima bomb and

perhaps a hundred thousand dead.

Heaven makes it very clear that the immediate effect on the Emperor is to personalize it.

To ask about himself, ask of himself about himself

about himself, suggesting that in retaliation in response

making the matter personal for the decision makers is part of the thinking.

That would apply in Tokyo in 1945,

it would apply in Tehran in 2024.

Here's Evan Thomas on the Emperor deciding

after Hiroshima to surrender.

By after the bombing of Hiroshima, although the army is in denial and doesn't even want to believe it is an atomic bomb. The Emperor is starting to come around.

He is he's mad at the military because they're not being straightforward with him and his own

court is telling him that a hundred thousand people have died in Hiroshima.

And the emperor starts to see, whoa, you know, the next bomb could be coming for me, for the palace.

He's not totally wrong about that and so he wants to push up the

diplomacy with Russia you know get this done he we by then he wants peace he's

on he's on toogo side by then but the wheels are turning here

and uh the next day the second bomb hits his uh... hits the Nagasaki. More of this later tonight.