This is John Batchelor, conversation with Senior Vice President Jonathan Shanser, the Foundation for

Defense of democracies, but a conversation that took place in late 2021. We were discussing Jonathan's then new book, Gaza Conflict 2021, Hamas, Israel,

and 11 days of war. The 11 days were in May of 2021, as you'll remember.

Hamas launched rocket after rocket,

and then attempted a land invasion of Israel

through tunnels to come out and attack the kibbut seam at the fences of at the edge of

the Gaza Strip where the fences are. Sound familiar? Yes. I learned from Seth Fransman's new book, The October 7th War, the 2021, and then before that

2018 and before that 2014, short wars involving Hamas and Gaza, were practice, we're preparation, we're

dry runs for what we just saw from the October 7th war.

And Jonathan's remarks here about Israel and its relationship to Egypt and about how Israel

was hearing calls for ceasefire right away and then Joe Biden weighs in

Jonathan reflecting on how he participated in the last two days of the 11-day

conflict and why he was speaking in a fashion that

was disciplinary towards Israel continuing to pound Hamas. If they'd pounded them more different with more fervor

perhaps October 7th could have been avoided or delayed because Hamas wouldn't have had the confidence that the ceasefire calls

were going to protect it. They did not, but you notice the game plan. It's very

similar. Here's Jonathan talking about Egypt, and then right at the end, Joe Biden's

participation.

There's much more of this tonight, the whole conversation tonight. This is just one piece of it.

Jonathan Schanser, F.D. speaking in late 2021 about the May 2021,

11 days of conflict with Hamas led by Yaya-Sinnwar, Mohammed Dief,

Michelle Haniya, all KIA except for Senwa.

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