This is John Bachelor, a conversation with Troy Senec for his book on Grover Cleveland,

a man of iron, the turbulent life and improbable presidency of Grover Cleveland.

You will recall that Grover Cleveland was elected twice, 84 and again in 92, a gap in between the

Republicans held the White House.

What is significant here is that in Cleveland's second term,

Troy makes the case very carefully and convincingly that the party had gone in a new direction from a man who wanted to

balance the books, only spend what the government had to spend extremely

conservative, recognizable conservative, even libertarian in his views of how the

government should function. But of course the Democratic Party was moving in

the direction of William Jennings Bryan, the nominee

in 96 and again twice more for the party.

The progressives progressive, the populace from the plain states.

In Grover Cleveland, as Troy says here, nobody cared what he thought

come the midterm of his second administration.

It's a... of his second administration.

It's a helpful way to think about the presidency

and what can go wrong in a re-election

for the candidates today are both seeking re-election, one serially

and the other one with a gap in between.

Troy Senec on Grover, Cleveland, a man of iron, the turbulent life and improbable presidency

of Grover Cleveland, more later tonight.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean what you really see with Cleveland in relation to the Democratic Party is by the time

...