This is John Batchel, a conversation with Foundation for the Defense of Democracy,

senior vice president for research, Jonathan Shanzer, about Gaza.

There's talk of ceasefire in Lebanon.

There's talk of ceased fire even between Jerusalem and Tehran.

There's talk of ceasefire throughout the region except Gaza.

And Jonathan raises the unhappy possibility that Gaza cannot be solved, not immediately,

not for the long term. And what that means for the security of, for the people in Gaza,

and for the life of the people in Gaza is Jonathan

Shanzer describing an unwelcome but very likely future more of this tonight oh I think

John that the the answer is that the Israelis are not relinquishing the security control of Gaza

anytime soon and and I do think that we all need to be prepared

for an uncomfortable reality, which is that we could see Hisbalah reach a ceasefire with Israel,

but that the vestiges of Hamas may choose to continue to fight in perpetuity. And that would leave the Israelis with not a

lot of choice, but to remain there, to continue to fight against this low-level insurgency,

to try to recoup the hostages if they are still alive, if they're still left. But this may not

be the clean ending that anybody really wants to see in Gaza.

So you could see the Israelis continue to fight.

You could see Hamas continue to fight.

You could see the hostages not return.

And this could go on through 2025.

It's obviously not the ideal outcome.

I would personally like to see an end of the war in Lebanon, an end of the war in Gaza, an end of

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