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This is John Batchelor. Again from a much longer conversation I have with the author George Black, the new book is The

Long Reckoning, a story of War Peace and Redemption in Vietnam.

Here George describes the discovery that Agent Orange is the driver for

distortions, for birth defects, for cancer in Vietnam many decades later continuing and how they did it and what reluctance there was in the United

States to accept the long reckoning much later in the show.

Yeah, I've found out the connection to liver disease.

The first patterns of disease that struck the North, the doctors and scientists in the north were returning veterans and even veterans in the field on the Hochiman trail where one of these doctors operated a field hospital.

They're seeing all these cases of litter cancer in young men in their 20s,

and they can't understand it.

And then they're coming back to Hanoi or to the north after the war, and they're giving their wives are giving birth to these

grossly deformed babies, kids with terrible birth defects and they want to

understand the phenomenon.

Chris Hatfield and his team arrive with the same question as the others,

what do you need, what can we do to help?

And the government had a committee at that point staffed by these scientists I'm talking about called the 1080 committee.

And the 1080 committee says what we need is a really comprehensive study in an area that was heavily sprayed that can really

give a soup-to-nuts picture of how this worked. And the problem is dioxin comes from many

...