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This is John Bachelor. Bill Rajo, my longtime good colleague of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy.

There is a good conversation with Stu Velasco and Zach Pop, two men who with their colleague Kyle Reynolds make the Boardwalk

Podcast. What is significant here is that Sue and Zach and Kyle all met in Kandahar

as contractors after they'd served their time in Afghanistan and Iraq, both in

uniform.

And they were intelligence analysts, contracted intelligence analysts, and comparing and contrasting their memory of how their

information was treated by commanding generals and politicians is a

significant contribution to how things went so wrong in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The information that started very good later was Bill's word and it's a word that we hear from Stu and Zach

manipulated. This is a small piece of a large story of a fear of failure in the commanding ranks of the US military and the political

actors in Washington. Fear of failure led to a fiasco. It's happened before, lessons learned,

perhaps. Here's Bill. Yeah, so it's interesting.

That was the other reason I was really excited to talk to the gentleman.

They were doing basically behind the scenes what I was doing publicly with the map that

Assessed the status in the Taliban in the Taliban controlled or contested districts in Afghanistan

And often what you had you know you had a blend here is what I've learned and

I knew this but I wanted to get them on the record to talk about it which was in

some cases military commanders didn't want to tarnish the records by having

...