This is John Bachelor, conversation with Judy Dempsey in Berlin, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

She's the editor-in-chief of Strategic Europe.

The best voices through the EU commenting altogether. The war in Ukraine,

in Ukraine immigration.

And now Manuel Macron, using the metaphor of civil war

if, I asked Judy is this ordinary French language in an election. It is just the legislature.

And Judy's answer is Revolution.

It's Judy Dempsey on McCrone's excitement, France's excitement,

if and when, the vote Sunday, the second vote, a week Sunday. More of this tonight. The French temperament is

terribly emotional and in all your years you've seen how strikes can be

can become incredibly heated and violent and whether it's over pensions or reform packages or the price of diesel, the price of gas,

there's something in the French character that can be terribly revolutionary and terribly radical when they take to the streets.

So, but using the word civil war is terribly dangerous and all the demonstrations that are that have taken place in the past.

They are not about civil war, it's about how the French actually demonstrate and protest,

but Macron is taking it further.