This is John Bachelor.

A happy conversation with James Shapiro, Professor James Shapiro of Columbia University.

The Playbook is his new book, A Story of theater,

in the making of a culture war.

This is the federal theater, 1935 to 1939.

Famous for decades.

Why?

It challenged everybody's assumption, sometimes successful, sometimes not.

Congress manhandled it.

In the end, it was pushed out of business by what became the precedent for the McCarthy

blacklisting of the 1940s and 50s. This is early on, this is the 1930s and a man

named Dees, a congressman from Texas led the campaign to shut down

the federal theater.

Here James Shapiro tells the story of Flanagan, Ms Flanagan, the woman who was responsible for putting the theater

together, handed to her by the Roosevelt administration by the FDR representatives.

And what we're looking at here is an heroic work of theatrical production. Lots of famous names.

Holly Flanagan was the woman running back and forth between the, it can't happen here, author

Sinclair Lewis, and script writers who were trying to deal with him

at the same time he was insisting upon no changes here no changes there under time pressure

It's a wonderful story James tells this anecdote. James

Shapiro, the book is the playbook, heartily recommend. Here's a second hour next

week.

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