This is John Batchelor, conversation with my colleague Judy Dempsey, the editor-in-chief of Strategic Europe in Berlin for the Carnegie Endowment for an international peace, asking her colleagues, 19 of them, to comment on the idea proposed by President Macron of France

of European Union NATO troops in Ukraine to support the administration as it's under pressure from the Russians

on the eastern side of the country, especially around Kharkiv.

That's right now, but anticipating another year of war.

Does the EU wish to put troops in in the event that Ukraine is in danger of falling?

Does NATO? There's an overlap between the two bodies.

The European Union chiefly seen as a trade organization, numbers 27.

NATO is seen as a defense organization, number 32.

The important countries overlap.

So therefore, an EU answer is a NATO answer.

And the responses from the 19 are mixed.

However, Judy points out why it is true and why it is necessary for the European states to overcome their reluctance.

There is duty Dempsey, Carnegie, in Berlin on should the EU slash NATO

were troops of some kind advisors, trainers, troops into Ukraine. More of this later.

NATO is very little without the United States politically militarily as as you know.

It's the biggest financial and military provider to NATO.

This is the first thing.

And secondly, I think one of the weaknesses of NATO

is that the European members of NATO

are simply not strong enough and united enough and strategically

coherent enough to know what they want from the outcome of this war in Ukraine.

I mean they're looking over the shoulder to see how the United States reacts.

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