This is John Bachelor speaking to the editor-in-chief of Strategic Europe Judy Dempsey with the

Carnegie Endowment. She's in Berlin. About populism in Europe, very different from populism

in the United States, as Judy explicates.

Chiefly, a major difference right away is that it's not anti-Russian, it's pro-Russia right now. Populism in Germany and France, Populism in the Netherlands,

Judy Dempsey on Populism and the European Union's intentions these next years under either a second trump or a first term for Kamla Harris.

More of this later tonight?

No, I think it should be the the question should be sort of

looped around the other way they're more disposed towards Russia frankly and and

even the term populism is is being superseded now by anti-immigration, by Islamophobia.

Populism is on a different burner on the gas cooker. The one that's now on the number one burner is immigration, anti-immigration,

anti-immigration, anti-Muslim and everything else and it tinged with pro-Russian influence and certainly the Russians are

watching very closely what's happening to Europe but Europe is not good shape when it comes to these huge migration concerns and you know

America has the problems and the Europeans have the problems but they have to find some way of working together to reach an agreement on how to deal with migration and how to address the causes of migration.