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listening. Terms apply. This is John Batchel. Speaking with colleague Tom Maudley, former

acting secretary of the Navy, about Doge.

Tom believes that Doge is a poor idea for several reasons.

One that will never go away.

You've just created another permanent department.

But inside this is the facts about working at the government.

I've heard for years you can't be fired.

I asked Tom, you can't fire anybody?

How are you going to cut down the size of government?

Which Doge is proposing to do, making more efficient fewer people doing more work

if you can't fire people.

Tom answers from his experience at the Navy.

More of this tonight.

And so it's much easier not to do it to simply move people to other jobs, other positions,

or just ignore and allow the inefficiencies to continue.

It is just a very, very difficult process.

...