This is John Batchel. Conversation on Hotel Mars, my colleague David Livingston joined with the cosmologist Enrique Gostinaga,

studying at the University of Portsmouth, as well as at two Spaces Studies institutes in Barcelona, explaining a new theory of creation, not the Big Bang, perhaps related to the Big Bang,

but it's called the Black Hole Universe. The physics are overwhelming. What is striking here is

that the James Webb Space Telescope has demonstrated there are galaxies, even elliptical galaxies, can be dated

within 280, 300 billion years of the Big Bang. That's too early for the theory we have of how

the universe was created out of the Big Bang. I think it's too early. In any event, this is astrophysics,

and Enrique does a wonderful job of explaining it so you can picture it.

Here's the portion where the Black Hole Universe,

part of the largest story of everything that is.

The creation, us right now, the expanding universe. Not when, but where

from and to where. Many questions. It's difficult to picture. But here, I've listened to it

twice. You get different images each time.

And there's a much longer conversation tonight.

In addition, I asked the professor to come back and talk about this at length because he's published papers on it and there's a book forthcoming.

The Black Hole Universe, Enrique Gustenaga.

More of this than I.

But the Black Hole universe is not directly linked to that.

It could be link, because, you know, when you are exploring the unknown, you never know

what you're going to link one thing with the other, right?

But in the work of the Black Hole universe is more related to understanding the Big Pan.

The Big Band has so far been understood as a creation moment.

We call it mathematically a singularity.

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