Hello and welcome to contemplations and today we're going to be debating whether society is going to collapse and of course this is a very important question so I imagine people are probably going to be interested in this and the sides are as follows we have bodeed on the not collapsing myself as well and Connor and Carl I think it is perhaps likely that things are going to collapse or more possible

than we believe it's going to be. I don't necessarily want to pigeonhole your position.

I don't even know what my position is to be honest.

Okay.

But the reason for this contemplation is we had a really interesting discussion in the office off

camera.

I think you were involved weren't you Carl. I think you were involved weren't you Carl I think you're arguing that collapse

is at least more likely than I thought it was I mean well yeah I mean it's

possible I don't deny that it's it's possible you know yourself and Dan had a really good conversation on on brokonomics about it just after you did the fourth turning and you were

Setting up a lot of the

Baked-in errors of the current system that will lead it to succumb to the

force of entropy.

So...

Well you seem to vacillate on Twitter. I've seen sometimes you're really hopeful when

optimistic other times it's over it's over it's all done it's never looks over you know

I mean yeah I'm a natural optimist right so I naturally try to look the

good and things I think that we can do whatever we want to do and I think we can

win but sometimes situation does look so bloody dire where it's just like okay even my optimism is like

look I'm not sure this is salvageable actually yeah I'm not a natural optimist I'm

very pessimistic as well but clearly not according to this side.

Yeah, yeah well I would just call myself really a realist I genuinely don't think systems collapse is coming. A decline perhaps.

But I think actually what's going to happen here is there's not,

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