This is John Batchel, a conversation with colleague John Hardy of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy,

not about this war in Ukraine versus Russia, but the next.

Ukraine, the second version.

The first Ukraine war will conclude with a ceasefire, negotiation, a peace deal.

But then, John Hardy on the next Ukraine-Russia

war. More of this tonight. Really, we've discussed this in previous shows, but really the key

factor for Ukraine is security guarantees. If the war were to stop today, you know, along the

current lines, well, you know, there would be

no more killing, but there's no guarantee that Russia would not launch another war. And I think

that possibility is actually quite likely, given that, you know, however the current war ends,

it's unlikely to conclusively settle the core issue being fought over here, which is Ukraine's future

and Russia's attempt to keep it within its so-called sphere of influence.