Hello and welcome to this book club with authors Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley for

When kids say they're trans and I thank you very much for both sending me a copy of this

Unfortunately, it's become a real zeitgeist issue in the last few years and there are close friends of mine as well as thousands of parents, families and children that are suffering from their relatives and loved ones,

falling prey to this particular ideology.

So I found this book took a really compassionate and instructive approach.

So thank you very much for sending that in. compassionate and

thank you very much for sending that in and she is for sparing the time to chat with me today.

Thank you so much for having us.

So before I dive into the sort of deeper reading bit, I just thought it would be helpful to, if both you wouldn't mind, explain a bit of your respective backgrounds, what led you to or meet each other, collaborate on this book.

Why this one now?

Okay, I guess I'll start. I have been practicing in the field of therapy since about 2008 and I worked with domestic violence and sexual abuse victims for some time.

I worked with children on the autism spectrum for many years and adults

with intellectual disabilities developing a counseling program there.

So I had kind of a broad range of work experiences but I had always been interested in the way society and group behavior impacts individual behavior. This was kind of a thread throughout my undergraduate and graduate studies.

And in 2014, I started working in a middle school.

And I noticed concurrently at the same time,

these interesting news and media pieces about something called the transgender child,

which was a new concept. I had not been trained in graduate school, for example,

to know about a transgender child. So this seemed like a new concept even though gender dysphoria and

gender identity disorder had been around the time and at the same time the students

that I was working with even in 2015 and early 2016, after a significant amount of time knowing them, were out of the blue, a few of them announcing that they didn't want to be girls anymore or that they had a new identity.

And long story short, I just noticed

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