This is John Batchelor, conversation with my colleague, Judy Dempsey, of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, about safety in the streets of Berlin and throughout the German Republic.

The campaign, several people in the campaign, have mentioned that the streets are not safe because of the migrants.

Judy responds. More of this later.

Oh, I think this is totally exaggerated.

I mean, I can walk in the streets in Berlin and the East Berlin at 10 o'clock, 10.30 at night time.

I don't like doing it later.

But this is the fear factor. Yes. and so if you feed in the fear factor oh gosh this

is this is what's happening to our country and we link this to migration and illegal asylum seekers

and so on and this she's tapping into this element but frankly frankly, I know so many my sons,

they can come home at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning on their bicycles

or on the public transport.

And touch wood, I mean, everything is safe.

Playing into the fear factor is such a constituency of those who want to be elected.