This is John Batchelor, conversation with my colleague Ernesto

Aruja, former Foreign Minister of the Republic of Brazil, about the statistic

that is odd and striking. There are more fires in Amazon for any time since 2005 a two

decade high right now with the year half done. I speak to Anesta Arrujo about this because of the irony

that when Bolsonaro was president and these fires numbered during the summertime or the drought or fires that were set by

arsonists.

Bolsonaro is held responsible.

Now that Lula de Silva has the highest number of fires since he was president in 2005,

the farmers are blamed or the drought is blamed or the natural phenomenon. It's an irony of politics.

However, Ernesto gives us some important statistics and recommendations.

Ernest Arrujo, on the fires of the Amazon, right now, On the balance for nature the Amazon damaged by fire more of this later tonight.

No no he hasn't because he's not called to into account for for that like

Bolsonaro was.

If governmental policies are responsible for the fires,

well, should be now the role for the Lula administration to explain their government policies.

I don't think it's government policies that are the main responsible for that.

It's a very complex situation and involves natural phenomena it involves the poverty

of the people in the in the Amazon and other regions that have to burn the forest it involves

a lot of different aspects, but this should be approached

scientifically and seriously and not politically and it's been approached

basically politically. I sent you a graph that's very illustrative in that regard.

Lula just broke the record of fires in Brazilian forests this year in the months up to July with it. If I can bore you with some figures but it's

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