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This is John Bachelor. Conversation with Ivana Stradner, my colleague at the Foundation for the Defense of democracies, helping me especially watch the Western Balkans, a part of Europe that has been in turmoil, certainly more than a hundred years, the first

war, but especially since the breakup of the Soviet Empire and the breakup of Yugoslavia.

The presenting issue right now is that Russia, in alliance with China, is directing influence

peddling and cyber warfare and disinformation against Kosovo, the breakaway Republic from Serbia

in the late 20th century as part of the Yugoslavian Wars, directing disinformation campaigns

against Kosovo politicians and especially women and what is to be done.

Avana very carefully analyzes first what is to be done and then admits that she's now and again discouraged.

And what will win this contest between the West, NATO?

And you say right now the invisible darkness that is Moscow and Beijing in alliance.

The Bonestradner Foundation for the Defense of Democracy is more of this tonight.

It is a very problematic situation.

So I'm not very actually hopeful.

But I do want to emphasize one other tremendously

important thing which is who has information superiority is going to

win this war and so far unfortunately Russia is the one who is building the narratives.

They understand very, very well how to polarize the region and how to polarize the West and in case of any further escalation in the Western Balkans

...