Presidents, Prosecutions, and the Rule of Law

We the People

National Constitution Center

News, News Commentary, History

4.6 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 15 June 2023

⏱️ 63 minutes

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Summary

Last week, former President Donald Trump was indicted by the U.S. government for allegedly retaining, mishandling, and concealing classified documents after he left office. Charged with 37 criminal counts—including many that stem from the Espionage Act—Trump appeared in a Miami federal court on Tuesday and pled not guilty to the charges brought against him. In this episode, legal experts Oona Hathaway of Yale Law School and Jamil Jaffer of the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University join to break down the legal and constitutional significance of the federal indictment. They also discuss potential outcomes of the prosecution, including effects on the upcoming 2024 presidential election; how these charges intersect with other charges being brought against President Trump in other courts including charges brought by the Manhattan district attorney in New York for allegedly falsifying business documents; how other countries around the world deal with heads of state who have been charged with breaking national and international laws; and how the decision to prosecute a president affects rule of law and the future of constitutional democracy. Resources: United States v. Donald Trump and Waltine Nauta (indictment) Espionage Act: 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) The Presidential Records Act (PRA) Oona Hathaway, “What Donald Trump and Reality Winner Have in Common” NY Times, June 11, 2023 Oona Hathaway on Classification of Government Documents, Washington Journal Interview, January 24, 2023 Jamil Jaffer, on “The Lead with Jake Tapper”, June 12th, 2023, Complete Transcript Scott Bomboy, “The question of president immunity back in the spotlight” National Constitution Center, July 24, 2017 Questions or comments about the show? Email us at podcast@constitutioncenter.org. Continue today’s conversation on Facebook and Twitter using @ConstitutionCtr. Sign up to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate, at bit.ly/constitutionweekly. You can find transcripts for each episode on the podcast pages in our Media Library.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Last week, former President Donald Trump was indicted by the federal government for alleged retention and concealment of classified documents after he left office.
0:09.0	On this week's, we the people, we break down the legal and constitutional significance of the historic indictment.
0:17.6	Hello friends, I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution
0:21.4	Center and welcome to We The People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.
0:26.0	The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit chartered by Congress to increase awareness
0:31.8	and understanding of the Constitution among the
0:34.2	American people. Joining us to help understand the charges against former
0:39.5	President Trump are two of America's leading scholars of national security law.
0:45.0	Jamil Jaffer is the founder and executive director of the National Security Institute
0:49.7	at the Antonin Scalia Law School at George Mason University.
0:53.4	He served in the legislative and executive branches,
0:55.8	including his counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee,
0:58.8	the White House, and the Department of Justice.
1:01.7	Jamil, welcome back to We The People.
1:04.0	Thanks, Jeff.
1:05.0	Great to be here.
1:06.0	And Ona Hathaway is Gerald C. and Bernice Latrobe Smith Professor of International
1:10.0	Law at Yale Law School.
1:11.6	She's served as counsel to the Department of Defense and she
1:14.8	recently wrote an op-ed on the Trump indictment for the New York Times. Her most
1:18.2	recent book is The Internationalist, how a radical plan to outlaw war
1:22.2	remade the world.
	...

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