This is a CBS Island in the World. I'm John Bachel with Gordon Chang, my colleague and co-host, and we welcome

Brendan Wicher. Brandon, most recently the author of BioHacked,

China's Race to Control Life.

This is about China and theft of intellectual property,

but especially of the kind that it's considered deep research,

very effective research for biology, for AI, for weapon systems and something called the thousand talent plan.

A man by the name of JU,

and the thousand talent plan.

Brandon, a very good evening to you, you have comfort with this language that's new to me.

My memory of the thousand talent plan is that it was a ploy, not very effective ploy, but it was

employed by the CCP to steal and to pay off those who stole for them. One

person caught up, I believe, a tragic story of the chairman

of the Harvard Chemistry Department who eventually was convicted of deceiving the government

and is very ill.

I don't know a status now.

Is that the same thousand talent plan?

How did it work, Brandon?

Good evening to you.

Good evening, John, and hello Gordon.

Thanks for again having me.

Yeah, the Thousand Talent Program

is China's ongoing program to basically ensnare Western talent academic institutions,

...