This is CBS, I In The World, I'm John Bachelors.

The Chinese fishing fleet, there are the White Holes, there are the Grey Holes, there

are the Blue Holes.

It's an important distinction to understand the aggression of the people's Republic

of China on its neighborhood, South China Sea and more.

Gordon Chang at Gordon G. Chang, my colleague and friend, and we're joined by James Finnell,

government fellow at the Geneva Center for Security Policy.

Important for our discussion, a retired US Navy captain, served as Director of Intelligence

and Information Operations for the Pacific Fleet.

James, the Grey Holes, the White Holes and the Blue Holes, what is that describe of the

Chinese aggression?

Good evening to you.

Good evening, John and Gordon.

Yeah, this is this distinction between the PLA, which is the Grey Holes, the warships,

the Chinese Coast Guard, which is the White Holes, and then their fishing fleets, which are

the Blue Holes, are all integrated together as part of the PRC's maritime sovereignty strategy.

And it's a strategy whereby you can use fishing fleets to intimidate and to, first of

all, steal resources.

So they send these fishing fleets around the world and go into other nation's exclusive

economic zones to steal resources, namely fish in the Pacific areas.

So many island nations from the French holdings in the eastern side of the Pacific through

central Pacific and in the South Pacific.

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