This is CBSI in the world. I'm John Bassford. The headline in Reuters is surprising.

Jack Ma returns to China as government tries to alay private sector fears. Gordon Chang at

Gordangy Chang and we're joined by Fraser Howey, the co-author of Red Capitalism,

gentlemen. There is a story here. It's compelling, but it's not a novel. It's history. And so

Gordon, I ask you to remind everyone who Jack Ma was and what he represents right now.

Good evening to you. Good evening, John and Fraser.

Jack Ma is one of the co-founders of Alibaba, the tech giant. And he was also the founding force

behind Ent Group, which runs one of the world's most efficient and premier payment platforms.

Jack Ma is a Communist Party member. I think he was forced into membership about eight years ago.

And clearly he is someone who was watched by the world's tech community,

especially China's tech community. Fraser, a very good evening to you. Jack Ma has been seen

in a flower market in Tokyo. He's traveled to Fiji. He owns land in New York. He's what you would

say is a man looking for a vocation after he earned his billions. And yet he's now back in Hongkong,

Beijing. Alibaba founder Jack Ma has returned to China, ending a stay over

season more than a year that industry viewed as reflecting the sober mood of its private businesses.

And now there's talk of taking Alibaba group and dividing it into six. And the markets are

responding vividly. Can you put all this together for us, Fraser? He was outside. Now he's inside.

Alibaba was in trouble. Now it's Rosie. What does all this add up to? Good evening to you.

Hello John. Hello, Gordon. I think exile is a word that we need to use here. And certainly

as we know, Jack Ma has made a very provocative speech back in late 2020. And basically his

fortune and indeed, and group's fortunes suffered tremendously, along with many other tech companies since then.

He largely lost much of his business clout within the group he had founded as the Communist Party

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