Hello there, I'm Chuck Todd. I just got off to meet the press set where I wrapped up interviews

with Joe Manchin, Kentucky Governor Andy Brashear, and John Stewart. Yes, that John Stewart.

I'm sitting here now with Jonathan Lumiere. He's a political Zwaydus beer chief. He's also

the host of Way Too Early on MSNBCs, also the author of a new book called The Big Lie.

And what it does, it does really well. It details and chronicles the seeds of Trump's

attempt to overturn the past election. It's out now in bookstores everywhere. It's one

of these books. I think we all wish we had a couple of years ago, type of thing. And

it really, I think, paints a better understanding of what Trump's up to. So Jonathan, welcome

to the talk cast. Glad to be here. Let's, I want to talk about your book in a minute.

But let's talk about the show. So Joe Manchin's spinorama, right? He's trying to sell this.

He's trying to sell it as anti-inflationary, and he's also trying to sell it as they didn't

raise taxes in a recession. How do you do? He had mixed success today, I would say. I mean,

he certainly was on message about the bill. And he said that Senator Sinema, who of course,

all eyes are now trained upon to see if she will support it. She hasn't yet. She, he

Manchin, confident that she will made headlines, though. You did with your question as to whether

or not Senator Manchin wanted Democrats to stay in control of the House and Senate this

fall. And he not wants not twice, but three times didn't really give you much of an answer.

It was pretty unbranded for Manchin in an odd way, wasn't it? It was. I mean, let's be clear.

His power is at its highest when things are 50-50. So that's probably his ideal outcome.

It doesn't want either party fully in charge because his vote matters so much right now.

And he obviously, of course, represents one of the redest states in the country. So he probably

feels like he can't be out there being seen as waving the flag for Democrats too much, even as he

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