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first time I've ever seen you wear shorts. I can't. I hate that you called it out because now people will know that I've worn shorts in my life and it makes me.

It's so hot everywhere. I wanted to see out all for packs and it was hot. I went to the Grand Canyon. It was hot. Did you wear shorts in those places? I did not. I wore shorts. I wore shorts walking the Grand Canyon. But driving and like doing everything else like if we weren't actively outside hiking and stuff. I was wearing jeans. But you own shorts. I own two pairs of shorts. So one of them is behind glass and I have to break it with mallet. It was just too fucking hot and that's these those are the shorts that I'm wearing today.

I'm like 100 degrees in Los Angeles and I can't believe more than 100. I just like man I there's a Kennedy quote a John F. Kennedy quote about how shorts are for children or men who are on boats. And otherwise it's like don't wear shorts asshole be a grownup. So that's kind of like I've taken that to heart. And I just don't wear shorts and it's just too hot. And I hate that you called it out. This is we have concerns. Hi Jeff. Can I have a nice. I am the new carbon that actually fits into what I wanted to bring up with you today.

pessimism which I know you're a big fan of. I'm not a fan of. I'm fucking pragmatic. I'm pragmatic. I'm realistic. Though you know there are sometimes when you have to be pessimistic about things. Well I think you're holding up and that's being pragmatic about pessimism. The fact that you own shorts and hate them is sort of your pragmatic pessimism at work. And this article on the Atlantic is very interesting. It's talking about this concept of defensive pessimism.

And how it may actually be more effective than thinking positively for people. It'll actually help you in your life to be defensively pessimistic.

Well I okay before we even get into this article I can tell you this thinking positively all the time is extremely detrimental. It's just as detrimental as being depressed and negative all the time. And I hate the amount of lip service we give to the concept of the power of always being positive.

Yeah. And although I know lots of people I think people think that I'm positive all the time I'm not. But I definitely know people that are much more positive. They don't even allow the concept of them failing to enter into their head.

And it's unrealistic. It is unrealistic. But I sense maybe there's an internal turmoil that I'm not privy to. But I sense that just not even allowing that potential to come into their head.

If they're not completely if they're not completely brain dead or crazy. Then yeah there's there's got to be some sort of internal conflict you're not seeing because I think most rational adults understand that you can't just be like it's all going to be okay all the time.

Well I don't even think it's such a cheerleader thing. It's more like if something doesn't work out just move on just move on to the next thing.

But don't tell yourself that it all worked out perfectly all the time because then you're not learning. So tell me what this defensive pessimism is.

So defensive pessimism according to this Atlantic article that I was reading is more about preparing for the absolute worst. It's envisioning the worst case scenario. Every iteration of the worst case scenario.

Yeah. Thinking it very clearly envisioning it with absolute accuracy and a level of vivid realism seeing those potential terrible outcomes and then preparing for them.

So it's my head. These guys in my head. This is you. This is me. Oh god. Yeah man. So everything I think I throw people off whenever I work on something with them in the beginning.

And what you and I did this too when we were when we were deciding what we were going to do with our fucking lives together.

I come up and I always apologize for this and I think you probably remember me sending you a couple emails where I was like letting you know because when you bring up a creative project to me.

I look at it and I'm like like terminator vision. Yeah. I'm like that'll fuck up that'll go wrong. This is a problem. Here's what's wrong with that.

And I think people think that I'm always trying to tell them that we shouldn't be doing this thing. But what I'm really telling them is like, oh we should absolutely do this thing because all of this shit is going to go wrong.

But it's worth it. Right. It's it's preemptively accounting for the bad stuff happening. Yes. And I think that the the world distinction that this article makes between this effective form of pessimism which you seem to thrive on.

I love it. Sort of crippling you know, damaging form of pessimism that causes people to just be depressed all the time is that you channel it and it has this kind of dispassionate effectiveness in motivating you.

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