Do Nice Guys Really Finish Last. I'm Tim Harford, host of the Cautionary Tales

podcast and I'm exploring that very question. Join me for my new miniseries on the art of fairness. From New York to Tahiti will

examine villains undone by their villainy, monstrous self-devouring egos and accounts

of the extraordinary power of decency.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Campside Media.

Media. From Campside Media and Sony Music Entertainment,

this is infamous.

I'm Vanessa Gregoriatis, and you're listening to episode 2 of The Body Man.

I'm here with my co-host Gabriel Sherman who went deep into Clinton world drama.

He got the first major interview with Bill Clinton's right-hand man, Doug Band.

If you haven't heard episode one yet,

go back and listen to it now.

So when we left off, Doug had just orchestrated

Bill Clinton's secret trip to North Korea to rescue an imprisoned journalist.

Doug was on top of the world, hobnobming with sheiks, billionaires, prime ministers, celebrities, rumor how did he even

dated supermodel Naomi Campbell.

But then came the 2008 election.

Hillary was running in the primaries against Barack Obama.

Bill was on the campaign trail,

just loving his place in the spotlight again.

And that's when the empire that Doug Band had built for himself began to unravel.

So like, let's talk about the 2008 election for a second and how that all went down with

...