It's Brian Lehrer, and this is my daily politics podcast from WNYC Studios.

It's Wednesday, June 3rd.

With me now, Jamil's Larty, a New Orleans-based staff writer for the Marshall Project, the nonprofit news organization

that covers criminal justice. Previously, he worked as a reporter for The Guardian covering

issues of criminal justice, race, and policing. Jamils was a member of the team behind

the award-winning online database The Counted. Remember that? Talked about that a lot after the incidents in 2014,

Eric Garner, Ferguson, Missouri, et cetera. So the Guardian started the counted, which tracked

police violence in 2015 and 2016 after it became more of a public thing that there was not a national database.

He's got a deep context piece now on the Marshall Project site that asks if the moment we're in was preventable and compares different police departments, different approaches.

It's called Why So Many Police Are Handling the Protests Wrong.

Welcome to WNYC. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you. Thanks, Brian, for having me.

One thing in your article is simply about police clothing and accessories,

like showing up on mass and riot gear before there's any trouble.

And you quote the former Camden police chief and a criminologist named Edward McGuire on that.

Can you start there?

Yeah, absolutely.

So, I mean, there is research on this from as early as the 1967 Kerner Commission,

which was this landmark federal effort to

investigate the urban unrest that the country was seeing in places like Watts and Detroit

and to try to gain some purchase on it. And social scientists found then that this kind of

abrasive police behavior, both in kind of appearance and

...