Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of Planet B. Everything Must Change. I'm Daliya

Gebril. This episode features an extended edition of our interview with writer and activist

Harsh Awalya. You may have heard snippets of this interview in our documentary about migration

and climate breakdown. If you haven't, make sure you check that out on the Navara Media

podcast feed. Before we get started, a reminder that you can order a free copy of perspectives

on a global Green New Deal, the illustrated book on which the series is based, at www.globalhiphongnd.com.

I'm Harsh Awalya. I'm based in Vancouver, Unceded Coastalist Territories,

Lands of the Musqueam, Suala Tooth, and School of Missionations, and I am the author of Border and

Rural. Harsh Awalya, thank you so much for joining us. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here

today. Can you begin by outlining the history of borders as part of capitalist modernity?

How has the modern border come to exist? And most importantly, how has it come to be

seen as an inevitable or natural part of our world? Thank you so much for having me and

for starting with that just very small question. I mean, I should say, you know, there are historians

of borders. I can probably answer that better than I, but what I think is crucial in the context

of the work of borders today is I think it's inseparable from racial capitalism and imperialism,

which is that we know that state borders today literally were created in order to maintain territory

for empire, especially in the kind of 1700s to 1900s that really was the key function.

And secondly, also to control territory and also to control labor.

And I think in terms of your question about the role of borders in capitalist modernity,

I think today it is so foundational that borders essentially work to segment labor, right?

Like such a key part of late capitalism and advanced capitalism is the continuing multiplication

of labor. And as we know, this happens in many ways across race, gender, sexuality, and more.

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