It may seem like a distant dream to imagine that the decades-long settler-colonial project which is Israel could finally end and transform into a state where all faiths, ethnicities, and cultures could thrive together in their diversity and equality. It seems like a distant dream because, as we all know, the reality that we’re witnessing is the opposite of that — it’s an escalation of an already ruthless and bloody ethnic cleansing campaign that officially began in 1948.

Although a democratic, multi-ethnic, multicultural, multi-religious state may seem like an exercise in imagination, it’s hardly a futile pursuit. We must constantly be exercising our imagination and dreaming of a better world, not only because it’s important to exercise those muscles of hope, but because in doing so we’re also spreading the seeds of knowledge and inspiration which could themselves affect change.

To talk about what could be, we’ve brought on Ghada Karmi, a Palestinian-born academic, physician and author of many books, including In Search of Fatima: A Palestinian Story, and, most recently, One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, published by Pluto Press. This is part 6 of our ongoing series on Palestine.

Ghada was a young child in Palestine during the 1948 Nakba, or catastrophe, and has spent many decades involved in the movement for Palestinian liberation. In this conversation, we discuss why a single Palestinian state from the river to the sea is the only just way forward, what some of the barriers to this happening are, what the sentiment of many Palestinains is when thinking about living side-by-side with Israelis in a democratic state, how this dream might turn into a reality, and much more.

Further Resources:

• One State The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, by Ghada Karmi
• Upstream: Palestine Pt. 1: A Socialist Introduction with Sumaya Awad
• Upstream: Palestine Pt. 2: Justice for Some with Noura Erakat
• Upstream: Palestine Pt. 3: Settler-Colonialism and Medical Apartheid with Rupa Marya & Jess Ghannam
• Upstream: Palestine Pt. 4: False Solutions and Paths of Resistance with Sumaya Awad
• Upstream: Palestine Pt. 5: The Political Economy of Palestine with Adam Hanieh
• Donate to Middle Eastern Children's Alliance (MECA)
• Anera: Provide urgent humanitarian aid to Palestinians
• Write your member of Congress to demand an immediate ceasefire

The cover art for this episode was originally designed by Thomas Greenwood and was slightly adapted by Carolyn Raider for this episode.

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