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This is the Cato Daily Podcast for Thursday, December 31st, 2020.

I'm Caleb Brown. The United States became less open in the

Trump years, less open to immigrants, less open to trade. In his new book, Open.

The story of human progress, Johann Norberg argues that humanity's embrace of openness

is the key to our success.

We spoke earlier this month.

Having observed this very sort of odd U.S. election and I suppose in some other countries some changes in power over the last five or six years,

how are we doing in terms? over the last five or six years.

How are we doing in terms of openness?

It's a bit of a mixed bag right now,

because on the one hand, you have this authoritarian backlash against openness and

globalization in many countries there's been a revival for the strong man in many places. On the other hand, technology and forces in science and the economy

...