That was just adorable because my Amazon order is here.

Which I might actually have to sign for, so I'm just going to go see if I have to do that.

Welcome to Irung about.

I'm Sarah Marshall and today we are learning about online shopping from Amanda Mall.

Amanda is a staff writer at the Atlantic.

She's someone who's writing, I have loved and admired for years now.

And I was so excited to talk with her about shopping and specifically why today it feels like we're so awash in objects

that it's harder than ever somehow to find the thing you actually need.

This is a big conversation we started off by talking about the origins and evolutions of shopping as something that humans do.

And finished by trying to figure out what does ethical behavior look like in 2022.

If you want bonus episodes and other bonus content, you can find that at patreon.com slash Irung about or on Apple plus subscriptions.

And later on this month we're going to be releasing some of the amazing heart stopping, gorgiously brave and open-hearted music that our producer, Carolyn Kendrick,

graced us with during our live shows. Oh, and hey, we had live shows. They went great. I hope you were there.

And if you weren't there, we're planning to come to your city at some point.

There's no escape. Don't worry. You can't get away.

Thank you for coming. If you were there, thank you for listening. If you weren't. And here is the episode.

Welcome to Irung about the podcast where we tell you why it takes 47 steps to buy a washcloth.

And with me today is Amanda Mall, who is truly one of my favorite writers who has been explaining the present moment to me for years.

And you write about consumer culture and products and manufacturing and the economy. And I feel like you were kind of the first reporter that I trusted on COVID.

You and Seth Meyers, man, without you guys, I don't know what I would have done.

Well, thank you so much. Yeah, I think that you've got my beat like exactly correct. But, but essentially, yeah, I think of it as writing about how people experience life,

which means how people experience consumer culture, how people experience the objects around them and the things that they do with their money and how they form their sense of self through the things that are around them and how they spend their money.

...