This is an I-Heart podcast.

Hi, and welcome back to Normale.

I'm Carol Markowitz.

I'm here with Mary Catherine Ham.

We recorded an episode that you're about to hear and then learned the shocking news that

Charlie Kirk had been murdered in Utah.

And we felt like we had to add a segment about that and talk

about it and not let the episode just stand on its own because it's a heartbreaking day for us,

and we felt like we needed to share with you all. Yeah. It's early in this news cycle, but the loss is already deeply felt I did not know

Charlie super well but I have known him since he was young because he's been making an

impact since he was very young and we worked together in those early days of

turning point.

He was doing the thing that you and I love.

Yeah.

Which is to engage on issues that are important to us.

You and I both, you grew up in New York, I grew up in Durham, North Carolina.

We grew up in liberal communities where we were happy to have friends who we could go back and forth with. And the thing that struck me today was, and the Utah governor, even though

we don't know a ton, and I think we can make some assumptions, but the Utah governor was like,

he was assassinated while debating on a college campus.

And that is the thing I admired about Charlie was watching him go out and civilly and

energetically with a smile.

Whoever came to him on a college campus, he was what college used to be.

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