Welcome back to the home of the oxymoron. Evil genius. He asked the newspaper to print his obituary early so he'd enjoy it. That's like hiding at your own funeral. Yeah, it's a big, great gig. I'm Russell Kane. Join me to weigh in on whether the biggest players in history are more evil or genius. Becoming that rich, I'd say that at some level of genius. It also helps

that it's a long time ago, right? It's like the podcast version of telling your kids the ice cream

van plays music when it's out of ice cream. Listen to evil genius on BBC sounds.

This is a download from the BBC. For more information and our terms of use, go to BBC.co.uk slash radio three.

On tonight's programme, good government is no government at all.

Soon we explore just what it is in American culture, left and right, past and present,

that makes it so anti-government as another attempt to break the Washington

financial stalemate fails. And in a noisy, over-hyped, overblown art world, we have a visit

from an artist who made small, jewel-like works and took a line for a walk. We talk about Paul Clay, an artist who lived through the dark days of the last century

and whose work has a first London outing in, I can't remember when.

Plus, John Steinbeck called it the most gloomy building in the world.

We go inside the Kremlin with its new historian and lose ourselves

in some of its many mansions. And we also wonder about the new director of the National

Theatre, Rufus Norris, what he's going to do with that place. But first, and it really is a first,

because it's only just been announced, the winner of the New Man Booker Prize.

I'm joined by the critic Sarah Churchwell and the answer to the question is...

The winner was The Luminaries by Eleanor Catton.

Okay, two things. Should it have won?

I think so, yeah, actually.

And why?

For me it came down, the shortlist came down to three books.

This one, Jim Crazes Harvest and I've just gone blank on it, Comptoy Beans, the Testament of Mary. And I think that this is, it's an extremely ambitious book. It's an extremely enjoyable book to read. Tell us what its story is, if I might speak in the 19th century. Okay, yeah, exactly.

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