The

The Hello and welcome to rock and roll politics, the twice weekly podcast with me, Steve Richards.

Thank you so much for tuning in wherever you are in the UK and indeed

the rest of the world. Just a few assembly notices. Then we get into our interview, which connects to

the podcast from earlier this week. So if you didn't hear it, you can get it, listen to that and then have a

follow-up. And you don't need to. They're not sort of, it's not like a serial where if you miss one

episode, you can't catch up, but it kind of helps. So here we go. The notice, yeah, just a quick

reminder of the live shows coming up. Birmingham on March the 21st,

1,000 trades, a great venue in Birmingham, and then moving on to King's Place, March the 23rd in London,

Belfast March the 26th, rope tackle insurer much the 29th, Witham in Barnacastle, April 1st,

and the old market theatre Brighton on April the 24th.

Who knows what will frame those live shows when we get to those dates,

but if you book the tickets, we will be making sense of it all live together. Oh, the joy of

live shows. So that's coming up. But now, more immediately, yeah, I've been keen to speak to

Theresa May's former chief of staff, Nick Timothy, for some time, because in the podcast earlier this week,

I argued that one of the reasons why this government is being submerged by almost the same issues

as the major government in the build-up to 1997, but with a greater intensity,

major was a more somehow rounded figure than Sunaki. He had won an election in 92,

and although he was by 97 wrecked by his parliamentary party and his wider party actually. Winning kind of

changes a prime minister a bit and he had a much more substantial cabinet to the Sunak who is

wrestling with the remnants of the Johnson era and before that actually. But my argument was that after 97, the Conservatives didn't

really have a really grown-up debate about why they lost in 97. Indeed, the tormentors of

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