My friend Paula Ramos is one of the most fearless storytellers of my generation.

You've likely seen her work on Vice, on MSNBC, on Telemundo,

and now on the pages of her deeply reported new book,

Defectors, The Rise of the Latino Far Right and what it means for America.

Pao and I talk about how race and trauma weave into our politics, how her own identity as a Latina

as a lesbian informs her reporting, and what she learned from her grandfather about the value of curiosity and the pursuit of personal freedom.

Paul, congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Pal, just given how private you are, I was really impressed and surprised by how much of yourself you wove into defectors.

And you begin by telling this story about your own acceptance to Barnard

and receiving this package from the university where they're really talking to you as a person

of color, which given your upbringing isn't how you thought of yourself. Take me back to that moment and the moments that follow

that really begin to shape your own sense of identity. Yeah, I mean, so as you know,

obviously, my father is Mexican, my mother is Cuban. I was born in Miami, but since I was

two years old, my mom and I moved to Spain.

And so so much of my identity in Spain was built around, you know,

would it mean to be a Latino in Spain?

Going to school, idolizing Columbus, going to school in an era where being Spanish was as a teenager,

like the coolest thing anyone could ever tell me.

And so when I moved to Miami at that age, I'm 17 years old. I applied to different American schools. And so once I get accepted into Barnard, the first communication correspondence I

have from them is this envelope, as you mentioned, that says, yes, you got accepted,

...