Hey hey guys, it's me, Lisa Bilyu here with another better episode of Women in Rimpad. They will help you deal with nozzleses in all situations like the workplace and professional settings to your family, your friends and the yes of course, romantic partners. And today I'm joined by the amazing The World Renowned Psychologist and Nozzleses expert and one of my close close homies, she is back to help us avoid emotional entanglement with Narsis's so that you can take your power back. That's right, it's my girl, Dr. Romani is in the house and she's got even more wisdom to share from her 20-plus years of experience studying Narsis's and working with Narsis' thick abuse survivors. With so much love and compassion, Dr. Varm is giving us the advice we need, but might not actually want to hear when it comes to the narcissist in our lives. Now guys, we dig in to why you want to explain and defend yourself to the narcissist, but never, ever, ever should you. We also talk about something called soul distancing. We also talk about the count intuitive ways to take power back and end it with the narcissist for good. And finally, Dr. Romney explains why we must must disengage with the narcissist, especially when they are playing the victim. Yes, it is true, the narcissist would also play that trick and that game. So this episode will arm you with the strategies you need to come out of each encounter without losing your stuff. Guys, unleash a bit of you and do these episodes and show up every day so that we women can start to take our power back with either people around us or situations. So this episode, if you can't, if you're finding it hard to stand up yourself to protect yourself from someone that's completely and utterly toxic, then home, this episode is for you. If we're in a manipulative, toxic or narcissistic relationship and we want to protect ourselves, stand up ourselves and gain what you call eff'd up resilience. What can we say and do to put them in their place? One of the tactics I talk about in my new book, and something I've talked about even long before this book, is this idea of not going deep. Okay? And deep stands for Defend, Engage, Explain, and Personalize. And I tell people, don't go deep. Don't defend, don't engage, don't explain, don't personalize. The best thing you can do is not get into it with them, right? You just don't play. And when you don't play, you're not gonna get pulled into their madness, really. And because you can't win at it. And it's hard though. And you and I have talked about this on your show before.

I remember so well what you say,

because it stuck with me,

which is this idea of, when I said don't defend. You're like, but what if you know you're in the right? I don't like the idea of not saying something. It goes against the grain of who I am. But I thought you raised a really important point, which is in some people's nature,

is that they can't not defend.

Like if they really believe something's right,

they're going to take the fight.

To which I say, important point, which is in some people's nature is that they can't not defend.

Like if they really believe something's right, they're going to take the fight to which I say then you need to understand what you're getting into. So if you don't understand what narcissism is, you don't understand what this is going to look like. You don't understand gaslighting or any of that. You're going to get eaten alive. But if you know that's what's coming at you, right? It's almost like you understand the weaponry that's going to be headed towards you.

You can then create the, in essence, the defense. But it's the not defending. Is it something very active you can do? Because they're accusing you of something that's wrong. That's the core of gaslight. Gaslighting is saying, there's something wrong with you. You must have some sort of memory problem or some other psychiatric issue.

You need help. The mistake would be, I don't have those things. I saw a therapist. They said there's nothing wrong with me. And they're like, well, of course, and then you get into his back and forth, right? When they say something like that, honestly, the cleaner play is, okay. You know, you just sort of play into their madness and say, I'm sure, got it, great. And that's the not defending. And the other mistake alongside that people make is they explain themselves. So I, listen, if you hear my point of view, this will make sense to you. No, it won't, they're not listening. I can't explain this to survivors now. They're not listening. So when you try to explain something, Like I want them to understand my point of view, they don't care. They want to dominate you. They don't want to understand you. There's a difference, right? Domination is just boom. Understanding is collaborative. Like if a person says I really want to understand your point of view, then explain. But they don't. And when you start explaining, thinking that maybe they'll

behave differently, another mistake, they're explaining, I think, one should never do. I don't think it's ever a good idea. The defending I understand some people say, I feel like I'm a doormat if I don't defend myself. The explaining is, I just think it's off the table. And I think that once you know what you're dealing with, It's to shut the explain off.

And all of this, and maybe we almost need to start

with the don't engage.

The don't engage. I think that once you know what you're dealing with, it's to shut the explain off.

And all of this, and maybe we almost need to start with the don't engage. The don't engage is you, if you know, if persons have ever been through a deposition, they kind of know what I'm talking about. You don't give long, meandering answers. You literally answer the questions yes, no, or as briefly as possible. That's what you'll always be instructed to do in attorney, keep it tight.

Silence is almost your friend in some ways,

just like keeping it tight because really when you're being deposed by opposing counsel, they're trying to trip you up, right? That's the bottom line. And if you can view it that way, the narcissistic person in essence is trying to trip you up. So less is more. And then not engaging is basically that you don't initiate new conversations with them You don't talk about yourself You don't share anything about yourself. So it really becomes I always say that I said to someone once I said Having any form of relationship with the narcissist is like forever having to listen to an annoying podcast Because they're not listening to you obviously podcast you're losing to not listening to you. And there's just Yammer Yammer. And if you're a listener,

bod, podcast, you're like, what is this person? Like this is I cannot get this five minutes back. Right. So that's what it is. They're going to just talk about what they want to talk about. And some whatever strange way they want to talk about it. And you're just listening. And in fact, and I'll give this technique after I get to the last, the P, the don't personalize

of ways to cope with it, because the last P is don't personalize. And in fact, and I'll give this technique after I get to the last, the pee, the don't personalize, of ways to cope with it, because the last pee is don't personalize. And people say, how can I not personalize this feels personal? They would be doing this to anyone in your position. This isn't about you. It's not you. It's really anyone who's in the unfortunate position of having to work with, listen to, be in a relationship with, be in a family with this person, would be going through what you're going to. They're not targeting you as a human being. They don't know you well enough to target you at this point. They just want what they want. So, are they not partly targeting temperament and characteristics? They wanna draw you into a position of weakness, right?

So one of the most classic narcissistic plays is, so they say something to you and you're like, no, no, no, no, you didn't hear that right. Let me explain my part and you're like, la, la, la, la, la, like, explain, explain, explain. And then you're like, yeah, no, you never said that. You're like, how can you tell me I never said that? I'm getting my phone and you're like,

boo, you know, you're just spinning, okay?

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