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Hey everybody, we've got an interesting one today, you know, for a change.

William Crystal is my guest.

William Crystal, the Neo Connale?

Yes.

And I'll tell you why.

In some ways to me, Bill Crystal has been one of the most interesting prominent Nevr Trumpers.

Most of the others who you see or hear or read were political operatives.

You know, the Lincoln Project guys, Michael Steele, Bill Crystal comes from a much more academic

intellectual place.

And I thought I tried to get some sense of not just how he came to an anti-Trump stance,

which is not frankly that hard to figure out.

But how the establishment Republican party's full embrace of Trump and Trumpism has made

him rethink some of his own past beliefs.

We recorded the conversation the day before the President's address before the joint

session of Congress on Wednesday, which I thought was extraordinary, especially in its

ambition.

Basically, it's like Biden got his team together right after the inaugural parade.

He just walked into the White House, got everybody in the Oval Office, and the President's

behind his desk, President Biden says, you know what, everybody?

Why don't we just do everything we've always known we should do, but haven't, and then

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