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Woman's Hour

Natalie Fleet MP, a spike of botulism cases and Kethiwe Ngcobo on her mother Lauretta

Woman's Hour

BBC

Society & Culture, Health & Fitness, Personal Journals

4.22.9K Ratings

🗓️ 20 June 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Natalie Fleet is the Labour MP for Bolsover whose path into politics has been far from typical. From a very young age, teachers told her she was destined for university – something almost unheard of in her Nottingham mining town. But her future took a different turn, when at fifteen, she became pregnant by an older man. At the time she had thought they were in a relationship - but as she grew older, Natalie says she realised she had been a victim of grooming and statutory rape. She's now speaking out to give a voice to those she feels have been made to feel they should be silent, and joins Anita Rani in the studio.

Lauretta Ngcobo was an author, political exile and an activist during South Africa’s apartheid. Her political activism led to her fleeing the country and raising her children in the UK, along with her husband, AB Ngcobo, an anti-apartheid political leader and a founder of the PAC - Pan Africanist Congress of Azania, a South African political party. Kethiwe Ngcobo – one of Lauretta’s daughters – has now produced a documentary, And She Didn’t Die. The film, named based on one of Lauretta’s most well-known novels, And They Never Died, tells the story of Lauretta’s life – and Kethiwe’s own life too. Kethiwe joins Anita live in the studio to discuss it.

In recent weeks a number of botulism poisoning cases have emerged in the North East. This is a dangerous and potentially fatal reaction to the botulinum neurotoxin used in anti wrinkle injections. North East based BBC reporter Philippa Goymer has been investigating and joins Anita.

After years of being controlled and humiliated by him, in 2011 Sally Challen was jailed for 22 years for the murder of her husband, Richard. The sentence was reduced to 18 years but in June 2019 she walked out of the Old Bailey a free woman - the introduction of coercive control as a crime meaning her sentence was reduced to manslaughter. Her son David who campaigned relentlessly for her release has just published a new memoir documenting his experience as a child survivor of domestic abuse and how the family came to terms with their histories and new lives over the years that followed.

Presenter: Anita Rani Producer: Corinna Jones

Transcript

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0:00.0

Before this BBC podcast kicks off, I'd like to tell you about some others you might enjoy.

0:05.1

My name's Will Wilkin and I Commission Music Podcast for the BBC.

0:08.7

It's a really cool job, but every day we get to tell the incredible stories behind songs,

0:13.5

moments and movements, stories of struggle and success, rises and falls, the funny, the ridiculous.

0:19.1

And the BBC's position, at the heart of British music

0:21.7

means we can tell those stories like no one else.

0:24.5

We were, are and always will be right there at the centre of the narrative.

0:28.6

So whether you want an insightful take on music right now

0:31.3

or a nostalgic deep dive into some of the most famous and infamous moments in music,

0:36.1

check out the music podcasts on BBC Sounds.

0:40.2

BBC Sounds, music radio podcasts. Hello, I'm Anita Rani and welcome to Woman's Hour from BBC Radio 4.

0:49.1

Good morning, welcome to the programme. David Chellen has written a memoir, looking back at his life and that of

0:55.9

his mother, Sally Challan, who was jailed for 22 years for the murder of her husband, Richard. David

1:01.9

will be here to talk about his pursuit in trying to gain her release and the eventual reduction in

1:07.6

her sentence after coercive control was viewed as a crime and the impact on his

1:12.8

own life. We'll bring you up to speed with news of an outbreak of botulism poisoning from

1:18.3

anti-winkle injections and I'm going to be joined in the studio by filmmaker Ketiwe

1:24.4

Enkobo, who has made a documentary about her remarkable mother Loretta, more shortly.

1:30.1

But the film was very nearly not made, when Katiwe believed she'd lost crucial footage

1:36.0

until a plumber came round to her home to check on a leak,

1:40.0

knocked over a box and outtumbled the missing VHS tapes.

1:44.0

And this was the sign that meant

...

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