Hi everybody, I'm John Donvan, host and moderator of Intelligent Squared US debates, which I'm sure you

knew since you're tuning into this podcast and you like our debates, but this is not going to be a

podcast strictly speaking as a debate. Instead, this summer here at Intelligent Squared, we're doing

something a little bit different. We're going to take a look at issues that surround the mission that we've

set for ourselves, which is to raise the level of public discourse in America today. And usually, as you know,

we do this directly head on by bringing you a balanced and thoughtful debate on the issues that

shape the day. And we do so in a very formal way with rules and with an insistence on civility and

with an insistence on logic and fact. That's the essence of the kind of debate that we put on. But for the

next few weeks, we're going to be doing this other thing. I'm going to be sitting down with a

series of guests in a studio, not on our debate stage, but again, in a studio where we will have a

conversation about the state of America's public discourse and also how our guests themselves are

working to bring civility and substance back into our national conversations, recalling this series,

the discourse disruptor series. And we'll be featuring guests like former ACLU head Nadine Straussen and NYU

Law Professor Thane Rosenbaum, who are both with me now in the studio. So to kick off this special

summer series, we're going to be talking about a topic we've debated a number of times here at

Intelligent Squared. And that is the tension between hate speech and free speech. Again, this is not a

debate. We're not looking for a winner or loser, but we're looking for one intelligent thought-provoking

discussion. So let's get started. Nadine and Thane, thanks so much for joining us. Great to be here. Thank

you. And we're thrilled to be kicking off the summer series by having this conversation with you. Nadine, IQ

two listeners are well familiar with your work because you've debated with us a couple of times already,

but for people who may not know that, you're a professor at New York Law and the former president of the ACLU.

And very recently, the author of a book I just finished reading hate why we should resist it with free

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