Welcome to the second episode of Season 2 of the Jordan Me Peterson Podcast. My name

is Michaela Peterson and I've been working with my dad for the last year. We've decided

to do this podcast as a joint project because we thought it might be something fun and

meaningful to do together. For this episode, we're presenting Dad's discussion with General

Stanley McChrystal on leadership. They talked in some detail about McChrystal's new book,

Leaders, Myths, and Reality. Why did you want to talk to General McChrystal? Well, there

were a variety of reasons. I mean, first of all, he's an impressive person. He's done a lot of

things in his life. You don't get to be a four star general without putting a tremendous amount

of time and energy and skill into it. And so it's always interesting to talk to people who's

skilled domain, knowledge domain is way outside mine. And then I was also interested in his take on

leadership because leadership is something I'm interested in as a psychologist and the leadership

literature is an absolute mess. We don't really know how to define it. There's all sorts of different

kinds of leadership. We know that intelligence has something to do with it and conscientiousness

often because leaders need to be reliable. But there's all sorts of other personality traits that

seem to be associated with leadership that are relevant in different situations. So it doesn't

look like there is any such thing necessarily as generic leadership. Extraversion? No, not necessarily.

I mean, because you can have a visionary leader who's very high in openness, who's not particularly

extroverted. You know, and then it would depend on who they had around them, you know, to help them

communicate their message. We need some extroverts around. Well, the extroverts are good to communicate.

Yeah. But there's lots of different styles and types of leadership. And so I was interested to

find out what he had to say about that and also about his personal experience, molding young men

in the military and his ideas about what might be done to help young people mature today. And so

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